The first event of the year is coming Monday, February 11, 2008, 7 – 9 PM (doors open at 6:30) at the Catholic Information Center, 246 Ionia NW, Grand Rapids, Michigan.
“Got Inclusion?” is an inspiring two-hour educational opportunity that invites the church to address one of the most controversial questions of our time. Participants will listen to the stories of local gay Christians and engage in dialogue about their place in the Christian community. Should the Church fully include gay members? If so, how can it do so? Everyone is welcome to share in this ecumenical event.
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(Hopefully people will not be too offended by this posting, just looking to get a conversation going. Please read this in the “soft voice” I intended, not the harsh voice that written words often impart). First off, thanks to the organizers and panel members who opened up their hearts to us Monday night. There was a lot of deep emotions and honesty spoken that added much to the meeting. For myself, I felt a little uncomfortable speaking in the small group as openly as I would have liked. It seemed as though the idea from the start was (from the video that was shown) that being gay is good, fine, and/or indifferent. I got the idea from the video that acting out on same sex attraction should not be considered sin, but that everybody should just love everybody. Which I do agree with the command to “love one another”, but “love” means more than just being nice to each other. In the video, the narrator says (paraphrasing) “even Jesus didn’t condemn the woman caught in adultery”, leaving off the last part where Jesus says “go and sin no more”. We should get the idea that what Jesus has saying was something more like, “I don’t condemn you either”, and left it at that, “because he loved her”. Or perhaps he would have added, “go and be more careful next time to not get caught, use a condom, and get tested for STD’s once in a while, you know, just in case”. Rather, Jesus DID show his love for her, commanding her to “sin no more”. Was Jesus saying “Adultery is wrong. Sex is intended to be shared between two people within the marriage covenant. Don’t stay in this sin” ? Unless we should like to think that the Bible really doesn’t concern itself with sexual behavior. In which case, perhaps Jesus’ message to her should have been “Next time, find yourself a nice, unmarried, Jewish boy to have sex with.” “Got inclusion?” is a great idea, but I think that we somehow need to know what the purpose is. Is it intended to open up discussions regarding sexual behavior? Is it to redefine long held beliefs regarding homosexual behavior? Is it to redefine marriage? Is the intention to find acceptance, or something more? Is the intention to let everyone see gay people as just that, “people”, struggling along with the rest of us? I think that was the idea, but was there enough “not said” in the meeting that could have opened up relevant discussion? Maybe the video simply tuned me out a bit. I’m curious to hear what other people thought.
The Good News, the Gospel of Jesus Christ, is all about Inclusion. So, shouldn’t we be too? It’s for everyone from all walks of life no matter who we are, where we live or what we do. This recent GI? event was a great opportunity to hear from fellow brothers and sisters in our faith community. Are we not all human beings who were born with intrinsic value and worth placed within us by our Creator? Perhaps the bottom line here is loving God and loving our neighbors as we do ourselves like Jesus commanded. And aren’t commands non-optional directives? This message, like any other, needs a voice. We are that voice. Let’s talk and pray more, that shiftings and changes of heart and mind may occur. Let’s be the voice that’s needed so all get included everywhere.
Thank you for the great program! As a Catholic, I am encouraged we will be on the road to a fuller body of Christ if we welcome and support each other on our individual faith journeys.
Shalom.
Hey Pat,
Some really good questions in there. Let’s talk more. I’m thinking the event was to open up discussion of all kinds, not to promote a certain viewpoint or say any one view is right or wrong. This subject has been taboo for much too long in the church as a whole, don’t you think? The fact that we were all, people of differing views and backgrounds, in the same room, having peaceful discussions in a safe setting was HUGE. GotInclusion? seems to be a message to the church in general, a message that says, ‘We want to be welcome in the house of worship. We want to be included too just like everyone else.’ Haven’t gay strugglers been shown the door enough times yet? Haven’t they had fingers of accusation and bullhorns directed at them in condemnation long enough? Your thoughts?
Pat,
Wow, thanks for your honest thoughts about the event we held! The purpose of “Got Inclusion?” is to talk about inclusion of Gay and Lesbian people in the church. In my opinion, you raise important questions that must be brought out when discussing the issue, but understand that “Got Inclusion?” is not existing to sway someone’s belief on sexuality. My understanding is that there is simply and opening of discussion of inclusion in the church. I think your points and questions are very relevant and keep the focus on the dialog about inclusion.
What is inclusion?
What makes one feel included?
How do we all feel included in the Body of Christ?
How do we feel included though we are sinners?
Good questions!
What is inclusion?/What makes one feel included?
Acceptance. We should accept gay and lesbian people, just as hopefully you would accept me, despite the sins you might learn that I commit.
What makes one feel included?
How do we all feel included?
How do we feel included though we are sinners?
These, I think, are the most difficult questions.
Let’s say that I am a thief and that I openly practice my thievery? Would I be included? Jesus came for the sinners. How should we, as Christians, include the thief?
I know a woman who is having an affair with a married man that she met at her church. How should we include both of them?
To be honest, I don’t know that I have good answers for these questions. “Love the sinner, hate the sin”? I know it’s the cliche, but it fits.
I know that the woman in this instance had an abusive upbringing. I assume that she is reaching out in wrong ways to fill voids in her life. I might do more damage by rejecting her, but I would find it difficult to accept her behavior, as well as the behavior of the man involved.
I think that “hating the sin” IS condemnation in the ears of the receiver. How can we best communicate “we don’t intend condemnation”?
One of many issues with gay/lesbian inclusion might be: “Do we need to get past the behavior?”, or better yet, “Do we to ignore the behavior?”
I have no problems myself with having gay or lesbian people coming to church. I have a lesbian friend that occassionally attends my church and I am always so happy to see her because she is such a great, fun, dynamic person. Any “sin” is between herself and God.
But, what if she was to bring her partner to church, and they hold hands, or exchange a kiss at the “sign of peace”, or appear overly affectionate, or….? To be honest, some where in there is where I start to get uneasy. I wouldn’t jump in and say “hey you guys, knock it off!”, but should I? I don’t really think so. But where do you go with that? I know that I’m getting ahead of the dialogue a bit, but I think this is one of the places the conversation leads to. Also, I think that I am painting a picture that would most likely “not” happen, so this may simply appear as some kind of “homophobic hysteria” but that is not my intension.
Perhaps I am diverging off into territories not intended for this conversation, so please feel free to give me some direction if I am getting off course.